What a day! There was so much to take in and now I am exhausted! I am practically falling asleep while typing this entry. Luckily tomorrow is a free day to prepare for our finals.
Anyway, the day began with a trip to Bethelehem. (Right - Bethlehem University. Students come from Hebron and Bethlehem, mainly). The city is very near Jerusalem and used to be considered part of the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem, but with checkpoints it took us an hour to get to Bethlehem. Our first stop was a place called The Applied Research Institute, an organization that was founded by a man named Jad Isaac. He has been involved in the Palestinian-Israeli negotiations and had gathered a lot of data on what has been going on in the West Bank and Gaza. I was appalled at some of the actions of the Israeli government. Basically I got the feeling that the Israelis were doing much of what the Nazis did at the beginning of WWII. That is a horrible connection to make because the victims have become the victimizers, yet they don't even see it. They are
putting the Palestinians into walled areas and using military control to keep them there. (Left - The Tent where we had lunch).Then they use the system that they know how to work to keep foreigners unaware in the international arena. In addition, they are doing all they can to circumvent agreements that are made both with the Palestinians and then nations on their side. It is really horrible.
At the same time, Palestinians are not completely innocent. The problem is, they don't really have a voice that is being heard in the West. That may partly be due to acts of violence that are seen as terrorism in the West. That definitely doesn't help their cause in the eyes of the rest of the world. But I think it also has to do with the fact that they don't know how to work the system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not placing full blame or
responsibility on the Israelis, but I believe that the Israeli government is not working towards peace though they claim to want it.(Right - Manger Square. In front of me is the Church of the Nativity).
After the ARI (check it out on arij.org), we went to Bethlehem University where we had a tour of the campus. That was nice, but the best part was a question/answer session with the students. We ended up talking about the conflict and learned that the word terrorism is very offensive to them. I can see where they are coming from because there isn't much they can do to retaliate against terrorism perpetrated by the Israelis
(I use the term terrorism to mean any act perpetrated against innocents such as women, children, and other civilians). (Left - The Wall as we were leaving Bethlehem. This wall keeps the residents inside of Bethlehem making it difficult for them to visit family or friends located in other parts of the West Bank).They do not have a military and any efforts to organize one would be seen as terrorism. It is frustrating to live in a situation where your family is unsafe and you are powerless to ensure their safety.
Our next stop was significantly less politically charged. First we ate lunch at The Tent (which was good and also very filling). Then we went to Manger Square. Manger Square is the square right outside of the Church of the Nativity. The Church of the Nativity is a basilica built by Justinian over the site of a church built by Constantine. According to tradition it was built over the cave that Joseph and Mary used the night the
Savior was born. Thus, it is the site where the Savior was born. There is evidence that that cave was known as the place of Christ's birth all the way back in the 2nd century AD so chances are that it is true. (Right - Huddling together in Shepherd's Field after reading the Christmas story. This field is across from Bethlehem, outside of the surrounding wall, though still within the West Bank. It overlooks the old city of Bethlehem and so it is very probably the place where the Shepherds watched their flocks by night). The basilica is shared by the Greek and Armenian Orthodox churches and there is a Cathedral built onto it for the Roman Catholic Church. It was quite interesting.
We had a little time to shop before we headed to our next destination. I bought some olive wood carvings. They are pretty nice. Then after everyone g
athered together, we drove to Shepherd's field, a field across from the location of the old city of Bethlehem. There we ate dinner and had a nice devotional. (Left - a sign mourning the assassination of 4 Palestinian leaders. This sign sure makes them look like terrorists, but as with most nations, leadership doesn't always reflect the general populace). We talked about the Savior's birth and we also sang many Christmas hymns. It was amazing. I watched over the city of Bethlehem, saw how still it lay, and glorified God. It was incredible to sing lines such as, "Come to Bethlehem and see . . ." and actually BE at Bethlehem. It was such an interesting contrast of what once was and what is now.
Well, I am so exhausted right now that I think I better get to bed. Good night!
Anyway, the day began with a trip to Bethelehem. (Right - Bethlehem University. Students come from Hebron and Bethlehem, mainly). The city is very near Jerusalem and used to be considered part of the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem, but with checkpoints it took us an hour to get to Bethlehem. Our first stop was a place called The Applied Research Institute, an organization that was founded by a man named Jad Isaac. He has been involved in the Palestinian-Israeli negotiations and had gathered a lot of data on what has been going on in the West Bank and Gaza. I was appalled at some of the actions of the Israeli government. Basically I got the feeling that the Israelis were doing much of what the Nazis did at the beginning of WWII. That is a horrible connection to make because the victims have become the victimizers, yet they don't even see it. They are
putting the Palestinians into walled areas and using military control to keep them there. (Left - The Tent where we had lunch).Then they use the system that they know how to work to keep foreigners unaware in the international arena. In addition, they are doing all they can to circumvent agreements that are made both with the Palestinians and then nations on their side. It is really horrible.At the same time, Palestinians are not completely innocent. The problem is, they don't really have a voice that is being heard in the West. That may partly be due to acts of violence that are seen as terrorism in the West. That definitely doesn't help their cause in the eyes of the rest of the world. But I think it also has to do with the fact that they don't know how to work the system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not placing full blame or
responsibility on the Israelis, but I believe that the Israeli government is not working towards peace though they claim to want it.(Right - Manger Square. In front of me is the Church of the Nativity).After the ARI (check it out on arij.org), we went to Bethlehem University where we had a tour of the campus. That was nice, but the best part was a question/answer session with the students. We ended up talking about the conflict and learned that the word terrorism is very offensive to them. I can see where they are coming from because there isn't much they can do to retaliate against terrorism perpetrated by the Israelis
(I use the term terrorism to mean any act perpetrated against innocents such as women, children, and other civilians). (Left - The Wall as we were leaving Bethlehem. This wall keeps the residents inside of Bethlehem making it difficult for them to visit family or friends located in other parts of the West Bank).They do not have a military and any efforts to organize one would be seen as terrorism. It is frustrating to live in a situation where your family is unsafe and you are powerless to ensure their safety. Our next stop was significantly less politically charged. First we ate lunch at The Tent (which was good and also very filling). Then we went to Manger Square. Manger Square is the square right outside of the Church of the Nativity. The Church of the Nativity is a basilica built by Justinian over the site of a church built by Constantine. According to tradition it was built over the cave that Joseph and Mary used the night the
Savior was born. Thus, it is the site where the Savior was born. There is evidence that that cave was known as the place of Christ's birth all the way back in the 2nd century AD so chances are that it is true. (Right - Huddling together in Shepherd's Field after reading the Christmas story. This field is across from Bethlehem, outside of the surrounding wall, though still within the West Bank. It overlooks the old city of Bethlehem and so it is very probably the place where the Shepherds watched their flocks by night). The basilica is shared by the Greek and Armenian Orthodox churches and there is a Cathedral built onto it for the Roman Catholic Church. It was quite interesting.We had a little time to shop before we headed to our next destination. I bought some olive wood carvings. They are pretty nice. Then after everyone g
athered together, we drove to Shepherd's field, a field across from the location of the old city of Bethlehem. There we ate dinner and had a nice devotional. (Left - a sign mourning the assassination of 4 Palestinian leaders. This sign sure makes them look like terrorists, but as with most nations, leadership doesn't always reflect the general populace). We talked about the Savior's birth and we also sang many Christmas hymns. It was amazing. I watched over the city of Bethlehem, saw how still it lay, and glorified God. It was incredible to sing lines such as, "Come to Bethlehem and see . . ." and actually BE at Bethlehem. It was such an interesting contrast of what once was and what is now.Well, I am so exhausted right now that I think I better get to bed. Good night!
7 comments:
Rachel, Sounds like you are being influenced by Arab propaganda against Israel. Let me give you some statistics that might help you think differently about the situation. In 1948 the population of Israel was 800,000. In 2007 it has grown to about 7 million. The area of Israel is listed as 8522 sq miles. Now think of that in the following context. Los Angeles County is about half the size of Israel, 4752 sq miles. In 1950, LA county had a population of 4.1 million. It has grown to a 2007 population of 10.3 million.
By working together, the people of LA have been one of the most productive areas of the country with as big or bigger influx of immigrants than Israel. In Isarel, Arabs are allowed to vote and have representation in the government. In other parts of the arab world, Christians and Jews are prohibited.
It is this refusal to work with the situation and the holding on to ancient hurts that keeps the palestininans in bondage to terrorists.
I appreciate your input. Unfortunately, I don't really understand what that has to do with what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. The West Bank and Gaza is only 22% of the entire land of the Holy Land. Within that 22% the Palestinians are allowed to live in only a fraction of the land. But overcrowding is not really the issue (except it appears in Gaza). The real issue is that movement is restricted to the point where students can't get to school sometimes and adults can't get to work, or end up being late because a "flying checkpoint" as they call it stopped the bus and everyone had to get off and be searched. That is travel between cities on the West Bank, not to Israel! The comparison to ghettos is in the fact that the cities are being completely walled up, surrounded on every side and entrance/exit is regulated by Israeli military.
We here are getting both sides of the story (as far as we can). But the problem is that in America, people only get the Israeli side. I'm not saying that there haven't been wrongs perpetrated on both sides, but the problem is (and this is true, not propaganda, we've heard it from both Palestinians AND Israelis) the Israeli government IS doing everything to circumvent the agreements that are made with the Palestinians. For example, they agreed at Anapolis that they would remove all unauthorized outposts in the West Bank. So, instead of removing them, they started authorizing all of them and building more. Besides that, the government is encouraging settlers to move to the West Bank. Now, it may not be true that the government is paying people to move there, but I don't doubt that they are encouraging it because you have to pass through checkpoints to get into the West Bank. How can that be seen as moving towards peace?
The other thing that people forget is that Palestinians have been wanting Independence long before Jews started emigrating enmasse to the Holy Land. However, they were poorly organized and relied on Arab nations to defend their right rather than speaking for themselves. That is where a lot of the problem is found because the Arab nations truly desired to eradicate the Jews. But how would you feel if a group of people other than your own was suddenly given your land by a foreign power and you started to become a minority in your own land? This is basically what happened to the Native Americans, too. Was that right to do?
As for Arabs being allowed to vote and having representation in the government, that is true but only to a certain extent. Each party (this is information I received at the Israeli Knesset) has a reserved slot for an Arab. However, if that party does not have enough votes to get to that slot, than that doesn't mean an Arab will be in the Knesset. Plus, most people fail to realize that many Palestinians are CHRISTIANS (about 30%, I believe). Therefore, any Palestinian government would not be discriminatory against Christians, and I don't believe it would be discriminatory against Jews, especially considering the public attention it would receive.
Besides that (information received while visiting the US Consulate General in Jerusalem) Israelis are not supposed to be confiscating land from Palestinians OR demolishing homes, but they continue to do so. The Israeli government does nothing to stop or discourage these things.
As for refusal to work with the situation, there are peace talks going on, but in these agreements, not only does Israel have the advantage as being much stronger, but they use that advantage. When Palestinians finally agreed to the 22% of land in the West Bank and Gaza (before that they wanted the entire Holy Land) Israel started wanting more land inside. So who is refusing to work with the situation? Why does Israel need 80% of the land and even more? There are Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan, many of whom would like to return home. Why do they deserve to live in the land of their ancestors less than Jews?
In addition, why is what the Palestinians say propaganda while what the Israelis say is absolute truth? Both are propaganda because each side represents things according to their own views and agendas. But that does not mean the Palestinian view should be discounted completely.
One final clarification, I said "seen as terrorism" only because the Palestinians informed us that the word is offensive to them. However, I believe that any act of violence against innocents is terrorism. But that also includes some violent acts that have been perpetrated by Israelis!
I hope that you and others can start to see that the situation here is not as clear cut as the media and even the government portrays. Palestinians are not the bad guys, neither are the Israelis. Both sides need to let go of ancient hurts (including Israelis!!). As long as they do, there will not be peace. But also how can there be peace if there is no trust? That means that Israelis need to do what they agree to do even if it is a difficult thing to do. Maybe then violent reactions will stop. I don't know what will happen if they don't because trust is a two-way street.
>But how would you feel if a group of people other than your own was suddenly given your land by a foreign power and you started to become a minority in your own land?
Do you guys use the Book of Mormon in your studies there? You might find some interesting things about whose land is whose and who has the right to give it away.
If you didn't understand the analogy to Los Angeles, maybe I can use the example from our family history. Look at the experiences of Anna Knight and her family. Moved in as settlers to Missouri in 1831. The locals decided they didn't like Northerners moving in and potentially making them 'minorities'. Is that anyway to treat new neighbours?
Looking at what the Israelis do now to protect against suicide bombers can't be taken out of the context of their history. Holding them to covenants (two way promises) that are contingent on agreements that are in constant violation is not helpful. Making agreements with people who don't recognize that you even have a right to exist is pointless. You can't negotiate with such people.
The situation here is very different from the one that you described in Missouri. It wasn't just people moving in. Jews lived in this land and emigrated to here long before the British interfered and thousands upon thousands of emigrants started moving here. If the emigration had been natural, who knows what would have happened. But this situation is more like what happened with the Native Americans. Not only did a large group of people move into America, but they pushed the Native Americans out of their homes and confining them to areas that they determined. Can you tell me that that is right? And going back to Bible and Book of Mormon Studies doesn't solve the real problem that there are two nations here who want a voice and independence. The real fact of the matter is that you can't just get rid of a people in today's world because YOU decide that they don't deserve to live in the land of their ancestors. Maybe that would have flown in the 16th century, but not in the 21st. In fact, that is one of the plans that was proposed by the Israelis, to move all Palestinians into the surrounding Arab nations. But Palestinians DO NOT identify themselves with the Arabs. It is ignorant westerners who can't see past that who perpetuate that claim.
"Making agreements with people who don't recognize that you even have a right to exist is pointless. You can't negotiate with such people."
This is another thing that is part of the ARAB world (though it is becoming less so). Palestinians have moved past that. They just want Israel to recognize THEIR right to exist.
Now, I don't blame them for trying to protect themselves against suicide bombers, but if they stopped repressing the Palestinians, maybe they wouldn't feel that was the only recourse. The majority of Palestinians are NORMAL PEOPLE who want their families to be safe, too. There have been Israeli shooters, too. One that I heard about was a settler on the West Bank who went into a mosque in Hebron and started shooting. He killed several before he himself was killed. But the West doesn't hear about things like that. Why? Because the media is slanted towards Israel. The entire point of my entry and my comments thus far have been to get THAT point across. The conflict is much more complicated then you are making it out to be. In fact, I found it very offensive that you accused me of being influence by propaganda when you have been influenced by propaganda and can't get past that. I have consistently pointed out that it is not only the Israelis actions that cause the conflict to continue, but THEY have a voice. They don't need me to defend them. Perhaps you should try to learn the other side before you make such assumptions and judgments against an entire people.
>and going back to Bible and Book of Mormon Studies doesn't solve the real problem that there are two nations here who want a voice and independence.
Now this is a very interesting comment from a Jerusalem center student!? The Book of Mormon has some very clear guidelines on what is needed. It and the Bible give a very strong perspective on why this struggle exists. Once you understand that God was/is involved in providing those scriptures, then you can't take the position that the things they talk about don't apply. Second Nephi has a lot to say on the return of Israel and the restoration of Jerusalem. The restoration of the Gospel led directly to the Priesthood rededication of the Holy Land for the return of the Jews. Was Joseph Smith wrong to send Orson Hyde on that assignment?
The Book of Mormon also talks alot about how people, when they keep their covenants with God, will prosper in the land. But when they don't keep those covenants, they will not have that promise until they repent.
So you are saying that just because I don't think that all non-Native Americans should move back to Europe or wherever they came from that justifies what was done to the Native Americans? My point in comparing the situation with what happened then is that a large group of people moved in, brutalized the native population (think of the trail of tears) and forced them to move onto small areas of land that they determined. This is what
has happened here in the Holy Land. When the Zionists began moving in to the land, they came with the intention of making this land a COMPLETELY JEWISH STATE. Many of the Jews already living in the land opposed this. They were living in peace with their neighbors. But when these strangers came in, determined that the land had to be THEIRS and be managed in the way that they determined, that is when peace went out the window.
You tell me, why couldn't they have lived in peace? It wasn't just a matter of becoming a minority in your own nation (though people in America get angry about the idea, too), in addition, the Zionists had organizations that were trying to get Jews to only hire Jews, thus causing many Palestinians to lose their work and their livelihood. How would you feel if a group of people came into your city and because of that you were suddenly out of a job? Then you started losing your land and your home?
As for your comment on the Book of Mormon: how about you use that to explain to the Palestinians why you think that they should have no rights and deserve to be evicted not only from their homes, but also their land and that their identity as a people should be completely wiped out? How about the fact that God is not a respecter of persons and loves ALL His children the same? Do you think He approves of the way that His children are treating one another? It is people like you who caused this conflict to begin with.
And as I've said REPEATEDLY (I'm starting to feel like a broken record trying to get through your ignorant prejudices) the issue is not one about taking the land of Israel from the Jews. It is one of allowing another people to have the same freedoms that both YOU and I, as well as the Israelis, enjoy. The Israeli people with whom I've talked agree that their government is making some serious mistakes. Why can't you see that? They say that settlers should be pulled out of the West Bank. That would eliminate a LOT of the security issues that requires the wall to be WITHIN the West Bank (I'm not talking about the wall diving Israel proper from the West Bank). I firmly believe that if the Palestinians who have been repressed for generations, began to see that progress was being made towards peace, the extremists would not feel the need to take out their frustrations through violence. The PALESTINIANS are NOT terrorists. There are terrorists who are Palestinians just as there are terrorists who are Israeli or terrorists who are Americans. You can't be so blind as to stereotype an entire people.
By the way, I'm done with this discussion because it is beginning to make me angry and I can feel that it is doing the same for you. If you have any desire whatsoever to become less prejudiced, I will continue the discussion in a civilized way. If not, please let it end here and you can be content with your view of the world and I will continue to learn more of the real situation and issues here.
Also, I don't intend to offend with this comment at all, though I'm sure I probably have. Please forgive me for that.
Larry, perhaps you should consider what Rachel has done - "come and see" -- and I am sure that you will see the truth -- and this will set you free.
If you have not been here in the Holy Land -- in both Palestine and in Israel -- and spoken with people from both lands, I undertand how you could think the way you do. I was thinking along these lines once myself - until I came and saw for myself. I have now been living here for the past 5 years - and continue to learn.
The "facts on the ground" are quite different from what we read and see in the US media. Try looking at Haaretz (the English language Israeli newspaper) - and read their editorial page often -- it is something I think you may find helpful. They are on-line also.
In reading Rachel's comments and her explanations, I find that she is pretty much 'on target' with her knoweldge and understanding --
Good for you, Rachel.
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